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Getting off of Medication

Thu, 04/14/2011 - 05:14
Hey there, I'm new here and just looking for some casual thoughts on getting off of medication (Keppra in specific). I'm 21 at the moment, and my case of epilepsy is very mild (or so my doctor tells me), so everything will probably go fine. But I figured I would reach out and try to get as much supplemental information as I can, just out of curiosity. First I should give an overview of my situation, so here it goes! When I was about 15 I started having mild non-consulsant seizures where I remained totally conscious and otherwise normal (though I didn't know they were seizures at the time). They usually lasted about 1-2 minutes. My case of epilepsy must be focused most on some emotional processing system in my brain, because during the seizures I would just feel very weird, emotionally speaking. The feeling wasn't quite like sadness, or anxiety, or any common emotion I'm familiar with. The feeling was something altogether different, but I would definitely classify it as an emotion (and a negative one at that). During these emotional seizures I also got some odd tingling/pressure sensations which started around in my left arm, progressed into my chest, and then eventually down to my legs and right arm. Usually I would just keep working or going about my day during a seizure, despite feeling more than a little off for those 1-2 minutes; then when it was over I would go back to normal like nothing happened. Sometimes, if I was in a conversation when it happened I would react by asking the other person to not expect much conversational acuity for me for the next few minutes, in the same you might do if you were suddenly hit a very bad stomach ache; but we usually still kept on talking. During a minority of seizures (maybe like 15-20%) I would feel an acute sense of tiredness immediately after. If I was home then I would lay down for a 30-60 minute nap, though if I was at work then I would just wait 5 or so minutes and shake it off. Again, the need to rest after a seizure was an exception rather than a rule. I told my GP about all this, but he didn't know what to think. Because the seizure's physical sensations started in the left arm and chest he though that maybe I had a heart problem, but a few tests showed that I was alright in that area. These small seizures weren't very frequent either. On average I would say that I would go for 2-3 months without having one at all. Then eventually I would have a handful of days where I would have anywhere between 0-3 episodes per day, but then the symptoms would subside for another few months. I think a few times I went for close to a year without having an episode at all. It was certainly odd having a new attack after going without one for so long. I would be sitting there in my chair when it would hit for the first time in 6-7 months, and would I think "Oh, damn, it's this thing again; I totally forgot that I used to get these." So, I ultimately ended up not doing anything about this (undiagnosed) epilepsy until I turned 20. One day during my 20th year I found myself going through a perfectly average day. If I recall correctly I was pretty well rested, and I don't drink, so I wasn't smashed or anything like that; I was otherwise normal, not at all altered, and doing well. I went to the bathroom for a pee, and that's the last thing I remember. My dad said he heard banging noises coming from my (rather cramped) washroom. He went in shortly after and found me passed out on the floor. When the ambulance crew came I must have been starting to come around, because I recall the police officers and medics standing over my bed. But I was still pretty out of it, because I don't remember the ride to the hospital. At the hospital I eventually came to, and when the doctor came by she said that I had had a seizure. During the discussion the topic of my little recurrent "attacks" eventually came up, and she told me that I definitely had epilepsy. They sent me for an MRI, which turned out normal. Before they sent me home they gave me a doze of Keppra and a prescription for 500mg twice daily (totaling 1000mg daily). I went for a follow up a few weeks later, during which I got an EEG. I think it lasted for something like 20-30 minutes, but it came out totally normal (they said that if my case was mild then they would have to do an EEG during one of my little attacks to find anything, but given how infrequent they were that wasn't going to be doable). The little attacks quickly subsided while on the Keppra. I can remember having a few of them while on the meds, but I could count the number of occurrences on one hand. I think at the moment it's been something like 6-7 months since I had any "mini seizures." I was never very good at taking the meds consistently, and I'm still not. I go a lot of days with just one of the 500mg pills, so I probably really average something more like 700mg daily in the long term. When my neurologist asks me if I miss doses I usually just reflexively say "no, not usually" and then kick myself later for lying. Plus there's the fact that I don't feel like I would be able to communicate with him very well if I brought it up and started a conversation. I can't quite put my finger on why, but his personality makes me less than prone to opening up. Anyway, before I get to the topic of stopping the meds, I should mention one more thing. In the above text I only relayed the story of one full-blown seizure, but there was also another. There was a time, about 5 months ago, when I stayed over at a friend's college dorm for one night, and I had been especially bad at taking the meds in the few days prior. I think I had probably gone like 3-4 days without taking my pills. The visit was unplanned. I went up just to say hello, and ended up staying over (hence why I didn't even have my pills with me to begin with). I was already tired that day to begin with due to early morning classes, and on top of that we ended up staying up until like 3:30am in the arts building that night. When we got back to the dorm I collapsed into bed, but a few short hours later I woke up in the hospital feeling pretty awful; apparently I had a seizure during my sleep. I tell myself that one "doesn't really count," since if I had to take an uneducated guess I was say that I was probably experiencing withdrawal from the Keppra, and being that sleep deprived probably didn't help either (which ins't generally normal for me). So, anyway. On with what I plan to do in the future, and what I would love to get some thoughts on. Lately I'm really afraid of being on this medication indefinitely. I read in the news that they're still doing research on Keppra, even for the possibility of it treating diseases other than epilepsy. But what I'm afraid of is the possibility of it having yet to be discovered negative side effects, especially over a lifetime (since it's so relatively new). I mean, when you take that pill it goes into your stomach and then gets absorbed into your blood stream, and goodness knows what it might be doing to your bones, or to your liver, or heart, or kidneys, or nerves, or muscles, or colon, or any of the other thousands upon thousands of tissue types it comes into contact with over the course of a lifetime. Not to mention what other things it might be doing to your brain too. Unless it's something very targeted like a local anesthetic, I always look a medication as something that "does a lot of different things to your body, one of which just accidentally happens to be treating your condition." And it's the "lot of different things" part that I'm worried about lately. Perhaps I'm being paranoid and just talking crazy. And I'm definitely not a doctor, so the rant in the previous few sentences, if read by a medical professional, might make me seem a bit loony; feel free to tell me if it does. The thing is that lately I've started to experience symptoms of what is probably RLS. If I'm laying in bed in the afternoon to watch a TV show then my legs will behave in weird ways. They'll do two things, specifically. The first is that they will sometimes just throw off twitches without my control. And the second (and more consistent) one is that they will get an all-pervasive sensation of tingling/tightness that I just have to relieve by either tensing the muscle, or shifting the leg into a different position. It also happens during the day. It's mild and mostly ignorable if I'm rested, but it's pretty bad if I'm tired (which to repeat, is rare for me). This started about 4 week ago, and it's an every-day sort of problem. I can probably survive just fine with these symptoms, but there's a little voice constantly saying "maybe it's the Keppra." Whenever I bump my head, or crush a finger in the fridge door, or burn my hand on a pot, I think to myself that maybe it's because of the "coordination problems" which Keppra lists as a possible side effect. And I even have myself convinced that I'm having a more of these little accidents since starting the meds (though I haven't exactly been keeping a log). I recently watched this video by NYU doctor Orrin Devinsky: http://fora.tv/2008/10/26/Epilepsy_Conference_Dr_Orrin_Devinsky If I understand his speech correctly, he seems to be into the idea of leaving mild cases alone to begin with. Or at least to take patients who are doing well on their meds and start to slowly wean them off of the medications with the idea that perhaps the epilepsy won't come back (or perhaps will just be mild enough now so as to make further treatment unnecessary). Watching that video made me question if it's worth my being on the meds in the first place. I don't drive since I have an easy and stress free job as a software developer, to which I commute by train. My seizures are very infrequent, and maybe that first full-blown seizure when I was 20 would have been an isolated episode even without meds. Just the act of having to take the meds every day is annoying enough that I would rather just live with the mild seizure episodes every few months. If you add on top of that the worries about side effects, then it definitely feels worth it to me to try stopping the meds. I wouldn't even mind having a full-bown seizure once in a blue moon; it doesn't seem like something life threatening, and at the rate I was going some people probably have more seizures in a month than I would have in a lifetime. I know you can't stop them meds cold turkey (which I learned the hard way from that 2nd seizure in the dorms). Since I live in New York I'm going next month to see that Dr. Devinsky from the video, with the hope that he'll be up for the idea of giving me a schedule to slowly start taking less and less Keppra until we get it down to 0mg daily. Anyway, this writing has gone on for a lot longer than I expected. I'm not sure I even necessarily expect to get any responses. It just felt nice to organize my thoughts here in writing. Good luck everyone, And if you've gotten this far in reading, then thank you very much for the attention, -Patrick

Comments

Re: Getting off of Medication

Submitted by Eternal_Howl on Sun, 2011-04-17 - 08:35

Hi Patrick,

Firstly, it sounds like you may have been having localized seizures when you were younger (when you had that feeling in your arm). When I say localized, the seizure is occurring in a specific area of the brain. In my case, I can have localized seizures that become generalized (or spread to the rest of the brain after starting in one region). With the seizure you had where you collapsed and lost consciousness, that was most likely a generalized tonic clonic. Remember, it's generalized because it probably affected your entire brain. Tonic Clonic - breakdancing (but no one can attest this occurred...you'd know if you had sore muscles when you woke).

While I've experience with not being on medication, being on medication and then coming off it (withdrawing), I don't have experience with Keppra. Yes, you can get drug-withdrawal seizures. I'm on an extremely addictive medication and it's the only one I've found so far that keeps my seizures at bay. I went 7 years without a seizure before deciding to wean myself off the meds to find out if I still have epilepsy. The seizures didn't come back straight away, but had strange episodes prior to a generalized tonic-clonic seizure and then after that, several partial seizures where I  was awake during the episode, and like you, advise the person I was talking to that my brain's a bit screwy and it will pass, but I won't be much for conversation for the moment.

In my case, I found that YES, unfortunately, my puberty-induced epilepsy was here to stay. I was 9 and now I'm 33. If I stay on the meds, I won't have a seizure,but given that I'm currently pregnant, I've reduced my dose as much as possible to ensure I give little risk to young fetus and remain as functional as I can because I'm still working.

Honestly, given my experience with some medications, I would have to comment that if you aren't taking the medication regularly, chances are, it won't be as effective as many medications require a dose to build up in your system (a bit like how vitamins work).  There's no point taking something if it doesn't work, but one has to give the drug a chance. If you don't like that one, try something else. Come off it entirely, but bare in mind that if you drive a car and you don't get any seizure warnings, you better not continue driving. If you operate machinery and you have no warnings, you could have a nasty accident.

It took me six months to fully come off my medication, which I'm told is as addictive as heroin. And while I could have had a drug withdrawal seizure 18 months later (yeah, crazy), this would not be typical for other meds. What, I can say is that I know I still get seizures,or would if I didn't take my meds. It's your body and nobody can tell you whether you should take stuff or not. If it comes down to quality of life, you're better off sucking it up and swallowing the pill.

If you do come off meds, I recommend weaning off the dose gradually and preferrably doing it under the guidance, or awareness of a doctor/neurologist and keeping a journal, noting also (this may seem strange) what you eat each day and how much sleep you got the night before. For some, diet can induce seizures.

I lead a pretty normal life and I'm not drugged up to the eyeballs. I drive a car, I have a job, I'm married, I'm living on the other side of the world right now and have been for the last two years. I do take meds, but not heaps of them. I'm really fortunate that my particular epilepsy does respond to medication, albeit, not the standard variety.

Hi Patrick,

Firstly, it sounds like you may have been having localized seizures when you were younger (when you had that feeling in your arm). When I say localized, the seizure is occurring in a specific area of the brain. In my case, I can have localized seizures that become generalized (or spread to the rest of the brain after starting in one region). With the seizure you had where you collapsed and lost consciousness, that was most likely a generalized tonic clonic. Remember, it's generalized because it probably affected your entire brain. Tonic Clonic - breakdancing (but no one can attest this occurred...you'd know if you had sore muscles when you woke).

While I've experience with not being on medication, being on medication and then coming off it (withdrawing), I don't have experience with Keppra. Yes, you can get drug-withdrawal seizures. I'm on an extremely addictive medication and it's the only one I've found so far that keeps my seizures at bay. I went 7 years without a seizure before deciding to wean myself off the meds to find out if I still have epilepsy. The seizures didn't come back straight away, but had strange episodes prior to a generalized tonic-clonic seizure and then after that, several partial seizures where I  was awake during the episode, and like you, advise the person I was talking to that my brain's a bit screwy and it will pass, but I won't be much for conversation for the moment.

In my case, I found that YES, unfortunately, my puberty-induced epilepsy was here to stay. I was 9 and now I'm 33. If I stay on the meds, I won't have a seizure,but given that I'm currently pregnant, I've reduced my dose as much as possible to ensure I give little risk to young fetus and remain as functional as I can because I'm still working.

Honestly, given my experience with some medications, I would have to comment that if you aren't taking the medication regularly, chances are, it won't be as effective as many medications require a dose to build up in your system (a bit like how vitamins work).  There's no point taking something if it doesn't work, but one has to give the drug a chance. If you don't like that one, try something else. Come off it entirely, but bare in mind that if you drive a car and you don't get any seizure warnings, you better not continue driving. If you operate machinery and you have no warnings, you could have a nasty accident.

It took me six months to fully come off my medication, which I'm told is as addictive as heroin. And while I could have had a drug withdrawal seizure 18 months later (yeah, crazy), this would not be typical for other meds. What, I can say is that I know I still get seizures,or would if I didn't take my meds. It's your body and nobody can tell you whether you should take stuff or not. If it comes down to quality of life, you're better off sucking it up and swallowing the pill.

If you do come off meds, I recommend weaning off the dose gradually and preferrably doing it under the guidance, or awareness of a doctor/neurologist and keeping a journal, noting also (this may seem strange) what you eat each day and how much sleep you got the night before. For some, diet can induce seizures.

I lead a pretty normal life and I'm not drugged up to the eyeballs. I drive a car, I have a job, I'm married, I'm living on the other side of the world right now and have been for the last two years. I do take meds, but not heaps of them. I'm really fortunate that my particular epilepsy does respond to medication, albeit, not the standard variety.

Re: Getting off of Medication

Submitted by frustrated00 on Wed, 2011-05-11 - 19:27

Hi Patrick,

I too rarely had seizures and tried to go off my meds...didn't last long. I developed seizures in my early teens and only suffered a couple every few yrs,  and figured others grew out of theirs maybe I could "grow out of mine." Despite the naysayers. Of course the dr.'s were hesitant, they don't really support you going off your meds. But, they said they slowly start to wean me down and see how it went. Frankly, I think everyone expected me to have a seizure right away and that would be the end of it.  Instead, I successfully weaned completely off all my medication, had a normal EEG showing normal brainwaves, andthen 6 mos later.....thank God my brother was driving.....because I had a seizure triggered by a red light.Talking about the experience with a different dr yrs later...he sd when people ask to go off their meds he give up their license for 5 yrs. But if driving is not an issue for you... that's not such a big deal. I know medication side effects are awful. My epilepsy med is the only one I take. (I've refused all others because of side effects/illness that I deal w/now because of.) It's just not something I would take lightly. If you hate the side effects, do some research and suggest some different drugs to your dr...that's what I ended up having to do. In the end, most of us end up bk on our meds again anyway. It's a bummer. 

Hi Patrick,

I too rarely had seizures and tried to go off my meds...didn't last long. I developed seizures in my early teens and only suffered a couple every few yrs,  and figured others grew out of theirs maybe I could "grow out of mine." Despite the naysayers. Of course the dr.'s were hesitant, they don't really support you going off your meds. But, they said they slowly start to wean me down and see how it went. Frankly, I think everyone expected me to have a seizure right away and that would be the end of it.  Instead, I successfully weaned completely off all my medication, had a normal EEG showing normal brainwaves, andthen 6 mos later.....thank God my brother was driving.....because I had a seizure triggered by a red light.Talking about the experience with a different dr yrs later...he sd when people ask to go off their meds he give up their license for 5 yrs. But if driving is not an issue for you... that's not such a big deal. I know medication side effects are awful. My epilepsy med is the only one I take. (I've refused all others because of side effects/illness that I deal w/now because of.) It's just not something I would take lightly. If you hate the side effects, do some research and suggest some different drugs to your dr...that's what I ended up having to do. In the end, most of us end up bk on our meds again anyway. It's a bummer. 

Hey I've been on epllim 500mg

Submitted by Thomas_58f2c255a2e8b on Sat, 2017-04-15 - 21:06
Hey I've been on epllim 500mg medication for two years and been seizure free I've started reducing my medication given by the doctor I'll be of medication in July what are the chances I will have another fit I had 5 seizures before going on medication with such a little dose and been seizure free for two years does this mean the overall outcome will mean I'm seizure free 

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