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I'm scared, Dilantin is killing me!

Sun, 01/09/2005 - 03:01

I have TLEs and Generalized sz's.  I sz every day at least with drops, absences and jerks and then I have the odd CP or Jamais Vu or t/c and other things thrown in here and there.  I have nocturnals which right now seem to be complex partials where I get out of bed wondering around trying to find my mother, who is deceased but I've also wondered around continually running into a wall trying to find a bathroom. I've even gone outside several times (I'm at least getting my exercise even tho I'm asleep!).  One of my big problems is that I'm unable to take anything more than Dilantin with Clonopin which makes it more effective.  I can take Keppra but it doesn't help me.  All other AEDs give me horrid side effects.  The new thought now is that this might be because I can't take other AEDs with Dilantin so an effort was just made in the hospital to get me off Dilantin, so I could once again try another AED and as terrified as I am to go through the wretched side effects I have with another AED, I was up for it.  During this attempt to get me off Dilantin I went status for a long period of time.  Wound up intubated, unconscious for quite awhile and the decision was made to send me home.  I have bronchitis right now too and my epileptologist felt as touchy as my body seems to be, he wants that cured first, which is seemingly hard to do, and we'll try again.  This time I'm going to slowly taper off Dilantin instead of cold cocking me off.  I have been cold cocked off Dilantin before and felt wretched but didn't go status and when I was just in the hospital I had an IV drip of sedatives to try and stop that from occurring, yet it did.

NOW this is what irritates me to no end.  I've had this for 6 years.  Actually I've probably had it all of my life, I know for sure since I was 7 as my mother had me treated for 10 months but insisted my doctor call it "hyperkinicity" aka ADHD and not epilepsy. I believe she was afraid of what that diagnosis could do to me prejudicially during that period of time (the 50's) but the notes state I had generalized epilepsy.  I do remember taking phenobarbitol, feeling sleepy but also getting rid of the weird feelings I had had all of my life.  Then I was taken off.  Had odd sensations, lost blocks of time and other things all of my life but 6 years ago exploded into full blown epilepsy I couldn't ignore.  I'm now on disability but I waited a long time to apply hoping to be able to work.  In my profession, or in any job I have found out, employers want me conscious at all times!  Can't blame them, and I'm considered by any employer a liability risk.  ALSO, I haven't been allowed to volunteer either so my home - has started feeling like a prison.

Anyway, I've been then primarily on Dilantin and Clonopin for 6 years after trying many other AEDs with disastrous side effects.  This is what really PO's me off.  Why don't these blasted neurologists tell you things like long term effects of these poisons?  When I was first put on both of these drugs my sz's stopped just like that for 5 months.  I was given a quinolone antibioitic that cancels Dilantin, which it did, and I've been out of control since then - about 5.5 years ago.  But at  no time did anyone ever tell me, and admittedly I didn't read about it for myself but took someone's word for it that Dilantin is an old thus safe drug (my A**).  No one ever told me that Dilantin shouldn't be used for long term use.  That's the latest news on Dilantin I've heard but how "latest" I don't know.  I read here someone took it for 40 years?  Good Grief!  I know we all have our own individual reactions.  I read someone takes Depakote or Neurontin especially and do just fine and I'm in a near coma.  I was a lunatic on phenobarbitol and on and on so I'm stuck on Dilantin and I became very insistent about no one changing me off of it as we changed communities twice, doctors several times, and I have been adamant not being changed off of Dilantin because of the side effect hell I went through for 2 years while neuros tried me on different things.  No one though told me Dilantin long term can be dangerous.

Over 2 years ago I think my Dilantin levels were always in the at least slightly toxic range but it seemed my sz's were a little better too so it was felt that was therapeutic, left that way.  Since then my levels are booming, huge, as my epileptologist states "not acceptable" but even now on a very low dose, not even a therapeutic dose I'm toxic but I have to take something for now, and Dilantin is it. 

But this long term use, long term toxicity?  Has shot my liver enzymes way up and nothing is bringing them down.  I now have peripheral neuropathy in both of my feet from the Dilantin and I'm not wild about loosing my feet!  And this week I find out I have pancreatitis, which is a dangerous inflammation/infection of the pancreas and that also is attributable to the Dilantin.  I'm supposed to be hospitalized for it and right now I'm refusing.  I had this about 1.5 years ago too.  I'm an RN.  I had a pic line installed, a long term type of IV line, and hung my own antibiotics at home, gave myself my own insulin and got over it in about 6 weeks but no one is allowing me to do that now.  Which is infuriating since I did it successfully once before.  All of that on top of my memory shot to shit from being on Dilantin which is the all time memory robber.

I feel so guilty about telling any of my family I have yet another problem.  One of my daughters and my husband have been my primary supporters.  As in another thread I read, a lot of my children and other "friends" and family have run like rabbits terrified I guess I'll have a seizure in front of them (don't you feel like with people like this telling them - how can they be so sure what they're health future is and if they get something devastating do they want YOU to be around and be supportive or should you take off too?)  My husband has been there but he's had an  obvious grudge, frustration, anger about this and I think I've hit the wall with his attitude and am probably divorcing him although I really can't live alone but I'm working or trying to work those kinks out but how can I when I keep getting one thing after the other?

Why am I posting?  I'm just depressed.  As bad as I have this I have fought hard and I live as full a life as I can and it is hard.  I don't feel like the doctors I've been to have given me information I should have had all along, any of them, about AEDs, seizures, any information that I should have had and now I wonder - and what else don't I know?  If I hadn't had been on some chat lines and looked things up for myself I wouldn't know anything about my epilepsy.  I know I'm not the only one who has this problem too.

The other reason is, I'm frightened.  I feel like I'm having one organ failure after the other.  Is this it!  I try to stay optimistic and usually do but it is very hard to stay optimistic when you're ill, and from these blasted poisons called AEDs, which I can't live without and can't seem to live with.

HELP (with my attitude)

Comments

RE: RE: RE: I'm scared, Dilantin is killing me!

Submitted by mexican_fire on Mon, 2004-12-27 - 18:15

Yes, your doc is dumb, or trying to hide something from you that he doesn't think you should know.  They do that, even though they shouldn't.

Yes, those types of seizures DO affect memory, BIG time.  I have a sub-type of TLE called Mesial Temporal Lobe Epilepsy Syndrome.  The seizures are called Amygdala-Hippocampal seizures (location in brain where they originate).  The hippocampus is responsible for any and all things memory.  The amount of memory deficit is linked to how much damage is done to the hippocampus, shrinkage, atrophy, or sclerosing, which is the most common of them.

They warned me a year ago, that my messed up memory was because of it going untreated since birth.  I was born with Myoclonic seizures (muscle-jerk seizures), then developed nocturnal Grand Mal seizures.  Those lasted until I was at least 16 or 17, then remitted, or so we thought.

When I was 24 or 25, I started having partial seizures, all forms (aura, SPS, CPS, and Secondarily Generalized TCs (nocturnal).  The last one to appear was the TC.  That was last year in June sometime.

THose never went away, and I still have all those types, and to make it worse, I developed a form of Reflex epilepsy (flashing lights).  Here is where the Absence come into play, as an adult.  I have a history of them, and they came back later as another form or itself. 

I still have the Myoclonics, as well.

My memory stinks from all of this.  It is shot, the short term part is, because I can't retain anything said or done.  My mom can tell me something, and 3 seconds later,  I am asking her to repeat herself.  I have to write everything down on a note pad, so I can remember.  I have my watch set to go off at 4 pm MST so I don't forget to take my afternoon dose of Neurontin.  The epi decided to change the way I was taking it, from where the neuro I had first, had me taking it 2 times a day (1800 mgsx2), now in November after 2 years of the other way, he decides to change it to three times a day (1200 mgsx3), and it has caused me to forget it several times or take it an hour later than I should. 

The books are right as well as any other info you read about it.  TLE is just a "headache" literally (pun intended).

Your grammar skills, language skills, speech etc should also be taking a nose-dive if they haven't done so already.

I just got hit hard, because no one picked up on it.  They were more interested in my irratic behavior, and insisted I had ADHD/ADD, and made my mom take me to the doc and get put on Ritalin or they wouldn't take me for the 4th grade term.  It was wrong of them, to stick their heads in the hole like some big dumb bird and try to ignore it, because it wasn't going away, just getting worse.  It is a CNS stimulant and this is a drug that should NEVER, EVER be given to ANYONE with a known or active seizure disorder, because it will just make eveything worse.

I was told I day-dreamed all the time, was inattentive, and a total bolivion (spelling) to everything around me, and was zoned-out.

Nancy

Yes, your doc is dumb, or trying to hide something from you that he doesn't think you should know.  They do that, even though they shouldn't.

Yes, those types of seizures DO affect memory, BIG time.  I have a sub-type of TLE called Mesial Temporal Lobe Epilepsy Syndrome.  The seizures are called Amygdala-Hippocampal seizures (location in brain where they originate).  The hippocampus is responsible for any and all things memory.  The amount of memory deficit is linked to how much damage is done to the hippocampus, shrinkage, atrophy, or sclerosing, which is the most common of them.

They warned me a year ago, that my messed up memory was because of it going untreated since birth.  I was born with Myoclonic seizures (muscle-jerk seizures), then developed nocturnal Grand Mal seizures.  Those lasted until I was at least 16 or 17, then remitted, or so we thought.

When I was 24 or 25, I started having partial seizures, all forms (aura, SPS, CPS, and Secondarily Generalized TCs (nocturnal).  The last one to appear was the TC.  That was last year in June sometime.

THose never went away, and I still have all those types, and to make it worse, I developed a form of Reflex epilepsy (flashing lights).  Here is where the Absence come into play, as an adult.  I have a history of them, and they came back later as another form or itself. 

I still have the Myoclonics, as well.

My memory stinks from all of this.  It is shot, the short term part is, because I can't retain anything said or done.  My mom can tell me something, and 3 seconds later,  I am asking her to repeat herself.  I have to write everything down on a note pad, so I can remember.  I have my watch set to go off at 4 pm MST so I don't forget to take my afternoon dose of Neurontin.  The epi decided to change the way I was taking it, from where the neuro I had first, had me taking it 2 times a day (1800 mgsx2), now in November after 2 years of the other way, he decides to change it to three times a day (1200 mgsx3), and it has caused me to forget it several times or take it an hour later than I should. 

The books are right as well as any other info you read about it.  TLE is just a "headache" literally (pun intended).

Your grammar skills, language skills, speech etc should also be taking a nose-dive if they haven't done so already.

I just got hit hard, because no one picked up on it.  They were more interested in my irratic behavior, and insisted I had ADHD/ADD, and made my mom take me to the doc and get put on Ritalin or they wouldn't take me for the 4th grade term.  It was wrong of them, to stick their heads in the hole like some big dumb bird and try to ignore it, because it wasn't going away, just getting worse.  It is a CNS stimulant and this is a drug that should NEVER, EVER be given to ANYONE with a known or active seizure disorder, because it will just make eveything worse.

I was told I day-dreamed all the time, was inattentive, and a total bolivion (spelling) to everything around me, and was zoned-out.

Nancy

RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm scared, Dilantin is killing me!

Submitted by LeeMc on Sun, 2005-01-02 - 23:12

Yeah it's Lee here.  Still on Dilantin for more then 30 years now.  It works - I remain seizure free but have suffered side effects that are less then fun!  Dental were the first and most persistant.  Kept all my own teeth until 3 years ago.  It took lots of work and hygene but it was worth it.  Still have my bottoms but they are going before long.  Liver tests are good but memory is getting worse (partly due to menopause as well).  How much more can I expect from the long term use?  I don't know but will be finding out what other options I may have now - 30 years later and 30 years older and with medicine 30 years more advanced.  It did what it needed to do when I needed for it to be doing it.....guess I can't gripe about that.  Hope you all find what works for you.

Happy New Year one and all.............Lee

 

 

 

Yeah it's Lee here.  Still on Dilantin for more then 30 years now.  It works - I remain seizure free but have suffered side effects that are less then fun!  Dental were the first and most persistant.  Kept all my own teeth until 3 years ago.  It took lots of work and hygene but it was worth it.  Still have my bottoms but they are going before long.  Liver tests are good but memory is getting worse (partly due to menopause as well).  How much more can I expect from the long term use?  I don't know but will be finding out what other options I may have now - 30 years later and 30 years older and with medicine 30 years more advanced.  It did what it needed to do when I needed for it to be doing it.....guess I can't gripe about that.  Hope you all find what works for you.

Happy New Year one and all.............Lee

 

 

 

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I'm scared, Dilantin is killing me!

Submitted by Gretchen on Sun, 2005-01-09 - 01:19
I was going to reply before and thank all of you for shared experiences and such strong support but the problem is - I FORGOT!It's not debatable that I'm getting off Dilantin. I'm very slowly tapering now with success. I have no real choices. I'm terrfically angry at myself that I didn't listen to multiple doctors who nearly begged me to listen to them, try to get on something different but the devastating side effects I'd gone through on other AEDs I wasn't willing to go through again. I didn't know tho that long term was 6 years! I thought I had about another 20 years or so to go before "long term" was a factor. Funny how I tend to write my own scripts of life! But "long term" I'm sure is different for different people plus I was toxic for over 2 years, surely a factor in the other physical damage I've had.After first posting this I developed full blown pancreatitis, my liver enzymes shot higher, as some one else mentioned my "teeth" (now a loose term-pun intended) that I have always taken care of are decaying partly from Dilantin causing hypotrophy (as opposed to the usual hypertrophy) of my gums so I have brushed and I brushed zealously and lost a great deal of enamel. PLUS I've knocked out I think now it's 5 teeth? From Drops. You know, as an aside, before epilepsy hit me this hard if I would have ever fallen and knocked out a tooth that would have been a major life's event. Now? It's that week's problem to take care of, so if nothing else? Aren't we ALL TOUGH PEOPLE? I mean really - think about it. My husband's boss fell backwards on the ice. I dropped backwards last spring and got a concussion, on just one of the times I dropped backwards. I easily can fall multiple times daily, and he took off the whole week because his neck was a little sore! Try having epilepsy! We people are TOUGH! "Sore" is often my middle name. Recently someone hinted to me about the "weak epileptic". HA! I dare anyone who doesn't know about this, and I don't think you have to have it, being knowledgeable, supporting someone is enough exposure to know - we epileptics have to be strong people.My current picture is at least heading in a good direction. For the FIRST time in 2 years I'm not toxic on Dilantin. I've had 3 levels and now I'm trusting that. Instead of taking 100 mg capsules, my epileptologist changed them to 30 mg so I could taper much slower and is working very cl osely with my home town doctor and me. One very good thing about my epileptologist is that I always feels he has high regard for me as a person, respect, includes me in MY care plan, it is not HIS care plan, MY body, not HIS body. This slow taper seems to be working (today). However the taper has been haulted right where I am for now and that's fine. I developed full blown pneumonia/bronchitis/intractable asthma (one of my disabilities) too. The lung infection and pancreatitis is more urgent so again I have a pic line, am hanging my own antibiotics at home, I'm on high dose steroids, so many medications, sheesh I had to write out a medication chart to check off I have so many I was using two pill minders and getting confused. IOW I've been busy with those two health problems before I can attend to the new AED problem. Still I'm holding firm to where I got tapered to and at a low Dilantin level for the first time (about 12-14) and guess what? I have a CLEAR MIND! I called my doctor and said I felt my mind was racing. He said no, from my speech he could tell it wasn't. I wasn't used to a fully engaged mind from sz'ing so much (which happens on such high toxicity), and being toxic for so long. I know this does sound odd, but it's odd to have such a clear mind. I thought something was wrong with me! I felt somewhat uncomfortable, a little racey. My memory is still shooting craps and I've had a few days of CPs I hope I never have again but over all? I'm sz'ing less. What a novel feeling. The high dose steroids are doing a major number on my emotions so I'm trying to post carefully. I've been on these many times before due to intractable asthma episodes and often it has given me an "artificial sense of well being". No such luck this time. I'm experiencing about every emotion there is, just wait 30 minutes and it changes. I have tried many holistic approaches to my epilepsy. Many have have helped, some were not noticed, a few made me feel worse. I'm campaigning right now to have my health ins. pay for accupuncture every 5 days as it does stop all absences for that period of time but it's expensive. But the gains I've had with diet, stress control, exercise, avoidance of stressors and triggers, many things that did and didn't work were worth trying them all and have decreased sz's on many days, not all days and I'm always open to new suggestions altho I admit I'm critical about suggestions of holistic things as some seem a little out there to me and I did have one wretched reaction to something I promoted without trying first - marijuana - which was disastrous, unless walking on a severely feeling slanting floor is doable, which it wasn't for me. Working holistically on any ailment is work, perseverance and staying with it and some days I get lazy, always pay that price and other times my biggest trigger which is stress is unavoidable. The plan right now is to get my lungs and pancreas healthy. Taper me at this very slow rate starting again once I'm healthier otherwise until I get to some "X" Dilantin level. Probably hospitalize me, put me on a sedative IV drip, since I go status easily. I'll be AED depleted, more prone to sz'ing and then start me up on a new AED very slowly, and the one of choice at this time, not for sure, is Lamictal. I'm still thinking on that tho. That was the second most devastating AED I took but I was taking another drug for another condition suspected to have interferred with it when I tried it FOUR times early in the game, as well as still on Dilantin. Hey? I'm up for anything. Just get me off this poison. I'm really worried about my feet and it sure didn't skip my notice about the death of one poster's brother from liver failure. May I please offer condolences to you - which sounds very shallow but is heart felt.Thank you for all the postings, web sites and may I also add this support, the web sites my husband and I both have read, has opened up communication with us we've never had before. It's in infancy but everything starts somewhere. We do love each other. Our financial, occupational and so many other reversals since my epilepsy blew up on me 6 years ago has been very stressful. We had problems before my E became this bad too. He also suffers from some serious health problems. It's hard for him, it's hard for me. He found he was having a medication reaction causing him to yell at me constantly and with all this other? I was a basket case. Feeling much better now emotionally and so are my lungs. Today, my marriage is intact. I hope it is tomorrow.I hope we all have a better new year too. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

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