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Ecstatic Seizures

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 07:32

 Hi

Has anyone experienced "ecstatic" seizures?  I've had a series of them recently, and they are amazing: totally outside the range of normal experience and by far the best experiences of my life!  I'm not religious or "spiritual" but recognise that they could be construed by others as deep and meaningful life changing events...evidence of the "divine" as opposed to neurological events. 

I've been told by my neurologist they are very rare and I've not been able to find out much about them/share experiences. 

Victoria

Hello all,  I'm adding this comment just over a month after the original post having realised that the thread is now incredibly confusing and there are some misunderstandings following what seem to be random postings.   You may want to follow the date order of the posts before making comments or coming to conclusions.   

Regards,

Victoria

Comments

Re: Ecstatic Seizures

Submitted by 3Hours2Live on Mon, 2009-09-28 - 03:42

Hi Victoria,

I found one of my newer neuropsych books that calls what I think I'm half-way talking about as "competitive recruitment" using behaviourism, in "Behavioral aspects of epilepsy: principles and practice" By Steven C. Schachter, Gregory L. Holmes, Dorothée Kasteleijn-Nolst Trenité, 2008, in Chapter 30, pp. 245-252, chapter title Conditioning Mechanisms, Behavior Technology, and Contextual Behavior Therapy (JoAnne C. Dahl, Tobias L. Lundgren).  Toward the end, they get too soft psych, as though they're about to recommend Epileptic's Anonymous, LOL, but they list 50 references.  In the USA, google books has the chapter at (sometimes blocked?):

http://books.google.com/books?id=a6Ygv5_RKKsC&pg=PA245&lpg=PA245&dq=behaviorism+epilepsy&source=bl&ots=BRZTlKEWkD&sig=Le-jQZovYZBojD5oV9PLqCMrq70&hl=en&ei=SjHASpiAJ4jWtAOw2Z3pAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I spent my popcorn money to buy the book last year, but it has a few new things, and it quotes Dostoevsky again!  Maybe you've already read it too.  I found their implied correlations as causal, between function and social skills, presumptive.  Operant, Pavlovian,  aversive, etc., conditionings weren't clarified.  Much about other aspects of epilepsy in the whole book.

Google books also listed "Acceptance and commitment therapy: contemporary theory research and practice" By John T. Blackledge, Frank Deane, Joseph Ciarrochi, 2009, with parts on epilepsy and competitive recruitment of brain cells in stopping/controlling seizures, around pages 130-149  (mostly the same).  It's less expensive, $30.00 USA at amazon.com, but much about things other than epilepsy whole book. 

Tadzio

Hi Victoria,

I found one of my newer neuropsych books that calls what I think I'm half-way talking about as "competitive recruitment" using behaviourism, in "Behavioral aspects of epilepsy: principles and practice" By Steven C. Schachter, Gregory L. Holmes, Dorothée Kasteleijn-Nolst Trenité, 2008, in Chapter 30, pp. 245-252, chapter title Conditioning Mechanisms, Behavior Technology, and Contextual Behavior Therapy (JoAnne C. Dahl, Tobias L. Lundgren).  Toward the end, they get too soft psych, as though they're about to recommend Epileptic's Anonymous, LOL, but they list 50 references.  In the USA, google books has the chapter at (sometimes blocked?):

http://books.google.com/books?id=a6Ygv5_RKKsC&pg=PA245&lpg=PA245&dq=behaviorism+epilepsy&source=bl&ots=BRZTlKEWkD&sig=Le-jQZovYZBojD5oV9PLqCMrq70&hl=en&ei=SjHASpiAJ4jWtAOw2Z3pAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8#v=onepage&q=&f=false

I spent my popcorn money to buy the book last year, but it has a few new things, and it quotes Dostoevsky again!  Maybe you've already read it too.  I found their implied correlations as causal, between function and social skills, presumptive.  Operant, Pavlovian,  aversive, etc., conditionings weren't clarified.  Much about other aspects of epilepsy in the whole book.

Google books also listed "Acceptance and commitment therapy: contemporary theory research and practice" By John T. Blackledge, Frank Deane, Joseph Ciarrochi, 2009, with parts on epilepsy and competitive recruitment of brain cells in stopping/controlling seizures, around pages 130-149  (mostly the same).  It's less expensive, $30.00 USA at amazon.com, but much about things other than epilepsy whole book. 

Tadzio

Re: Ecstatic Seizures

Submitted by conceredmum on Mon, 2009-09-28 - 11:39

This is my first post and I do not know where to start - I am unsure what forum my daughter's experiences would fall under and I would be very very grateful if someone could point me in the right direction.   3 months ago my 22 yr old daughter suffered a grand mal seizure - her first seizure - after a huge upset.  She has CP but is very high functioning - no previous problems.     She was put on Ativan and did not have any seizures for a month until her Keppra meds were upped to a therapeutic level - for the next 2 months she had just about every seizure under the sun and was seen by various neurologists/had a cat scan/two EEG's/MRI etc - nothing showed up.  Eventually she was sent home wearing a digitrace monitor for a 48 hr period - she had massive seizures whilst wearing it as it upset her so much - now we thought we were going to get somewhere...wrong.  Nothing showed on the monitor and so it is presumed that she has PNES (psychogenic non epileptic seizures) - she is being weaned slowly off of her meds and will start counselling shortly.    In the meantime she has improved - has not had a seizure in over a week and appears to be getting a handle on the fact that these seizures are caused by upset and most particularly with her girlfriend (who also has had to acknowledge that she needs help to deal with depression).    

 Now, here comes the strange part.....last week she had a period of intense concern and after a short sleep woke up to what can only be described as a changed soul - extremely intuitive and spiritual.   She has always been very in tune with peoples moods/problems but now these have taken on a whole new life.  She sees people's auras and accurately describes each persons colour (she has not done any research on peoples auras as she had always thought this to be "hippy dippy"!!).    Her descriptions so far have been 100% acurate and she also appears to know about traumas that have happened to people that she meets that have had far reaching effect and impact on their lives.  I think she feels that she has become a healer of some sort and says that she feels much more relaxed now - much happier.    My other daughter has been completely "freaked out" by her sister's change and feels that this is just part of her seizures and fears that her brain has been damaged.    

Has anyone heard of something like this?

This is my first post and I do not know where to start - I am unsure what forum my daughter's experiences would fall under and I would be very very grateful if someone could point me in the right direction.   3 months ago my 22 yr old daughter suffered a grand mal seizure - her first seizure - after a huge upset.  She has CP but is very high functioning - no previous problems.     She was put on Ativan and did not have any seizures for a month until her Keppra meds were upped to a therapeutic level - for the next 2 months she had just about every seizure under the sun and was seen by various neurologists/had a cat scan/two EEG's/MRI etc - nothing showed up.  Eventually she was sent home wearing a digitrace monitor for a 48 hr period - she had massive seizures whilst wearing it as it upset her so much - now we thought we were going to get somewhere...wrong.  Nothing showed on the monitor and so it is presumed that she has PNES (psychogenic non epileptic seizures) - she is being weaned slowly off of her meds and will start counselling shortly.    In the meantime she has improved - has not had a seizure in over a week and appears to be getting a handle on the fact that these seizures are caused by upset and most particularly with her girlfriend (who also has had to acknowledge that she needs help to deal with depression).    

 Now, here comes the strange part.....last week she had a period of intense concern and after a short sleep woke up to what can only be described as a changed soul - extremely intuitive and spiritual.   She has always been very in tune with peoples moods/problems but now these have taken on a whole new life.  She sees people's auras and accurately describes each persons colour (she has not done any research on peoples auras as she had always thought this to be "hippy dippy"!!).    Her descriptions so far have been 100% acurate and she also appears to know about traumas that have happened to people that she meets that have had far reaching effect and impact on their lives.  I think she feels that she has become a healer of some sort and says that she feels much more relaxed now - much happier.    My other daughter has been completely "freaked out" by her sister's change and feels that this is just part of her seizures and fears that her brain has been damaged.    

Has anyone heard of something like this?

Re: Ecstatic Seizures

Submitted by zealot on Tue, 2009-09-29 - 02:33
Victoria, Thanks for asking. The short answer is no. ADVICE TO ALL OF YOU. STAY AWAY FROM PSYCH SETTINGS! THESE PEOPLE WOULD'T RECIGNISE A DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS IF IT HIT THEM ON THE HEAD! Underlying medical conditions must be diagnosed and treated before a diagnosis of a psych disorder can be made. Well, this rarely happens. Epilepsy is a rule out. Temporal lobe epilepsy, especially with secondary limbic system involvement, is a major rule out. The post ictal phase of these seizures is often mistaken for psychosis. IT MOST DEFINITELY IS NOT! What it is are dissociative symptoms. These are often mistaken for psychoses because ignorant professors are teaching their even more ignorant students that the DSM-IV-TR Axis I section only has three sections. The dirty "D" word does not exist. Johnny, does your shrink talk to your neurologist? If he doesn't, it's time to ditch him and find a new witch doctor. The "atypicals" as well as the much loathed phenothyazines have a high seizure risk. I had seizures every night after my dose of Quetiepine (Seroquel). Just what you need. You are right to question this polypharmacy. It's just bad, not to mention expensive. If the SSRIs aren't working for you (you're on one of the best) I don't have high hopes for the Aripiprazole (Abilify). SSRIs make me manic, but they don't keep me from being depressed. I need dopamine for that and the folks that take such good care of us at the US FDA think it's another dirty "D" word. I take a huge (not huge enough) dose of Modafinil including an HS (bedtime) dose. I also have ADHD and various parasomnias, which is how I talked my docs into it. Tadzio, am I beginning to sound like you? I still feel the same way about organized religion as you and Victoria do; however, personal beliefs are quite different. I, too, took refuge in psychology and philosophy. It is a "normal" symptom of the protracted post ictal phase of these types of seizures. We really quite an intellectual bunch. Just please don't talk Skinner to me. I started reading him at 15 and had to stop when I got to the part where he brags about putting his daughter in "the box." My heart still pounds and I feel like I'm going to lose my lunch just from thinking about it. Kind of like the "third cure." Abuse justified by dogma. To the person who just joined us, welcome. I'm kind of suspicious about this DX. Some or even most of her seizures may be non-epileptic, but that doesn't mean that they are all psychogenic. And this last one you describe sounds exactly like what we're talking about here. I've had these sorts of abilities since I was a child. I had no idea what they were. My brother, ever the skeptic, thought I had ESP. Practitioners of Asian disciplines devote lifetimes to attain these abilities. It is often referred to as the "sixth sense.". That certainly is what it feels like. I also have a ghastly history of trauma. Ironically, the Oxcarbazepine (Trileptal) I take to control my seizures aggravates this. I have one very easy way to differentiate the psychogenic seizures from the others. I can make them stop. I use various Eastern breathing and relaxation techniques. Perhaps you should look into this for your daughter before she gets "shrunk" to nothing. I hope I've been helpful. I apologize for my cynicism. It's been a long time coming. On a happier note, last weekend was Rosh Ha Shonah. It's the Jewish New Year and I don' think I transliterated it correctly. My best friend lives in Florida and she was worried about me spending the Holy Day alone. So was I. Well, I did not spend the Holy Day(s) alone. I spent them with Hashem (G-d). I was truly blesses. My eyes well up with tears of joy as I write of it. Religious experiences are not psychoses. Talking to G-d is also known as praying and I would like to know when that became a pathology. I wish you all the best with your struggles. Please don't forget that you can and should seek a second opinion. We know ourselves better than any clinician who has spent a few hours with us. To thine own self be true. Zealot

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