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Take control of your epilepsy and seizures. Seizure management has never been easier.
TAKE CONTROL TODAY
Did you know that you can walk around for twenty five years with partial epilepsy that has not been treated and then be placed on an antidepressent and suffer psychosis. It happened to me and the mania became an obcession. I know how and why these drugs caused this horrible nightmare to occur. There are others who know the comotose gray dungeon the drug drags you into and even after you stop it is too late for GABA alters the ossilations and untreaed you go to status and because no one knows what the hell they are doing you are psychotic. The spike wave is the deja vu sensation, it dawned on me the other day. From the inside of me looking back I'd call it a seizure. After a while they were like waves of water and I could feel as they moved through me because I no longer slept and without help. How could I have forgiven myself as a mother without an answer? That is why I had to know.
Recent Comments on this Discussion
I was diagnosed with severe clinical depression in March. I was put on Celexa. Celexa lowered my seizure threshold. My seizures increased.
Doctor suspected my seizures have been around for years, lying around dormant and popping up every once in a while without my knowledge.
So yes, you can walk around with undiagnosed, untreated epilepsy and the wrong meds can send you into the most nightmarish tailspin.
It happens, and I think it happens far too often.
I have personally helped three people whose symptoms others spotted and they called me. They have all improved. I am no more than a messenger because where wold they go without insurance or a doctor who does not understand the side-effect and the time it takes scables you and the recovery too.
My son is on Strattera for ADHD. Strattera is a type of anti depressent. I've been trying to find out if this medication lowers his seizure threshold, but have not found anyone with any thought on this. I saw this posting about anti depressents and thought I'd give it a try (although I must admit, I was lost through out much of the postings).
Does your son have epilepsy? Look the drug up use webmd and look for action. How does te drug work' is it an SSRI or does it deal with GABA or sodium channels? Contraindications or yur pharmacist can help you with that. My experience was triggered by two different antidepressents with the same iingredient GABA. It has a diffent effect on epilepsy.
Yes, my son had BRE and was diagnosed 3 1/2 years ago. I thought Strattera worked in a similar way to an antidepressant, but if you look at the posting prior to yours, someone describes what it does. I don't understand what GABA means nor do I understand the difference between an SSRI and the description in the prior post. At any rate, I tried giving my son the Strattera at dinnertime rather than bedtime (which is when he gets his seizures) and he hasn't had a seizure since. It could just be coincidence, but time will tell.
Thanks for your reply!
Cheryl
Strattera isn't an antidepressant, though it was originally developed in hopes it would be one. It's the only non-stimulant ADHD treatment currently available and is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor.
I guess I really don't know much about anti depressants. I know strattera is the only non-stimulant ADHD med available, but I thought it was in the same medication class as an anti depressant. I'm not sure what a "norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor" does, but I thought it was generally used for depression (before they found it helped ADHD).
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Cheryl
From what I understand (and keep in mind I'm just a patient who's learned to read about meds and pharmacology as a hobby because she keeps finding docs who don't understand meds AT ALL - not how they work, not the complete side effect list, not interactions, not contraindications, etc.), Strattera was developed thinking it might be a new class of antidepressant - after all SSRI antidepressants work on serotonin and SNRI antidepressants work on serotonin and norepinephrine, so they went with the idea that something working specifically on norepinephrine might also help depression and came up with the med we now know as Strattera. It didn't help depression (or maybe it just didn't often enough to get to say it did) but somehow it got discovered that it did help ADHD so they got it approved for this use instead.
All that said, wikipedia usually does a good job of explaining any med's history and basic pharmacology. You might try looking it up there.
Think about the teenagers who commited suicide. I do every date. Read about GABA and its affect on absence seizures. GAGA is chemistry so they are prescibing the same drug with the same drug as the other or replacement. You can find artcles warning about the danger. The drug companies know the meurolgist is a generalist and the expert does not connect it and so people die. The drug companies know. Think of how many companies are involved so know one speaks up and no one protects the patient. I lost so much and you do not get to come back from crazy but you do learn to not care. You were epileptic. Think back do you ever have a blunt force closed head trauma. Then read kindling.
Good Night
Thanks to everyone for your information. My 11yr old son has CPS not fully controlled with meds. His Psych was contemplating putting him on anti d's in an effort to help with his depression/mood issues.
Timing is everything. After reading all of this as well as the responses to my own post asking this very question I believe we know which route we are NOT going to go.
THANKS AGAIN TO EVERYONE. THIS IS SUCH A GREAT SITE.
Imagine if you were young and thought that was it, why live. I'm happy you see color again. How were you helped?
The mania created the need to learn and what I know is a research paper with a conclusion and no one to tell. It was the Lamictal but first read the descrion of epilepsy and status in temporal lobe patients with spike-wave disorder, absense seizures or closed head injuries. If you took a GABA drug anytime in the past that may be your trigger. If you belive you are in status you need a good dose of a benodiazapam to calm the ossilations that GABA speeds up in some brains. It takes a while to stop being cloudy so fish oil and Co Q10 are a big help. Anymore questions please ask.
Donna, you hit on some points similar to my situation. I never had seizures but do remember some strange aura feelings as a child. I've always been prone to depression but functioned professionally until one winter depression when I went off work and was diagnosed bipolar after brief consultation. I was given tegretol and mannerix and had my first seizure at 33. They said it couldn't be the drugs and was a fluke as the eeg was normal. Second one at 36, third one at 38. all grand mal and of considerable lenth. all normal eegs and cat scans. I had a severe psychotic episode when I was switched to topomax and attempted suicide, as well as many other embarrassing acts out of sheer fear and paranoia. I've been on no meds since 04 but still have auras especially in fluorescent lighting and still have psychosis. My trust in doctors and medications is a little shakey but I'm beginning to think I may have undiagnosed tle that has been causing bi-polar like symptoms. Your comments have made me rethink wtf has been going on. What confuses me is that if the meds were the problem why aren't things ok without them now?
I believe that when one has a seizure disorder even undiagnosed, one can experienc something called inter-ictal psychosis or psychosis "between" ictal events. The problem like you say, is that if the patient is undiagnosed, their seizure disorder presents like plain ole psychosis. Unfortunately, the treatment they will be given is neuroleptic (anti-psychotic) medicatons. And these medicines lower the seizure threshold making that person more prone to seize. And then a viscous cycle ensues of seizing and then psychosis.
It's a shame more physicians don't see this. If the neuroleptics do not stop the pyschosis at usual doses, they should immediately think of undiagnosed seizures and order EEG testing. Sorry you have suffered so much.
PAOLO
No antideprassant drugs like SSRIs aren't proconvulsant, but anticonvulsants. Before 1990, even if few papers about experimental studies of epilepsy in animals showed an anticonvulsant effect, SSRIs were considered pro-convulsants, then they were considered not suggested to depressed epileptic patients. After 1990 some papers show SSRI fluoxetine could be helpful in drug resistant epileptic patients. Now is known that a potentiation of serotoninergic system help control of epileptic seizures.
In 2005, Jobe put forward a theory about the presence in the brain of exterior defensive shield. Depression and epilepsy have different intrinsic fabricators, but they share common exterior defensive shields which are made of noradrenalinergic and serotoninergic neurons. They protect the brain from a deranged function of intrinsic fabricators.
If defensive shields are lacking their action then the bad working neuronal circuits are linked to other neurons and the pathology is shown. On the basis where are localized the intrinsic fabricators there is epilepsy or depression.
Brain serotonin is synthesized from tryptophan (trp), an essential amino acid, then a decreased brain influx of trp is expected to affect brain serotonin synthesis.
The brain supply of tryptophan depends upon several factors, including plasma tryptophan concentration, its binding to proteins and the plasma concentrations of the other large neutral Amino Acids (LNAAs ) namely tyrosine, valine, methionine, isoleucine, leucine and phenalanine, which are not bound to proteins, competing for the same blood-brain barrier (BBB) carrier.
Our results of amino acid plasma levels have shown a decreased amount of TRP in epileptic patients, while the other LNAA were unchanged and we found a 30% reduction of trp brain uptake in epileptic patients.
Serplus (Giofarma srl, info@giofarma.it) is a food supplement containing 0.75 g alpha-lactalbumin (ALAC) in each tablet.
ALAC is the only protein found with the highest TRP LNAA ratio and was shown able to increase plasmatic TRP LNAA ratio in human. Alac is a natural protein, being also in human milk at 2 g/l concentration.
In the pilot trail we proposed Serplys to drug resistant epileptic patients. We enlisted 18 drug resistant patients.
In eleven pts there were a good clinical outcome with 3 tablets daily in a only month. Three patients need to redouble the dosage to have a good clinical outocome. Four patient at 3 tables die were not responder.
There are not side effects, but improvements in mood.
Actually the first patients (10) was enlisted over an year ago and they keep on being well.
I am fifty years old. As a teenager I received a closed head injury. Within the first year I remember having my first absense seizure. I do not believe I blacked out fully again for many years. I did have "feelings" I would always describe them as deja vu sensations followed by a feeling of dread and nausea (Classic symptoms of TLE). There are many systems and functions of the body that may be affected by temporal lobe seizures. These include endocrine functions, heart rate, respiration, consciousness, thoughts, dreams, speech, writing, mood, behavior, temper, sexuality, and others.
I was "different" and the interictal behaviors were interesting and did not interfere with my life enough to keep from being a teacher, mother, or happy. I smoked and I have since learned that controlled it. Then I was given Gabatril, Neurontin, Zoloft always trying to make me calmer only watching as I went crazy. Now I know that the behaviors were the outward appearance of what these drugs were doing to my brain. As the GABA increased it lowered my seizure threshhold and now instead of a few seizures a year I was having partial and blackouts all day and in my confusion I lost control but in my head I always knew I would be well if I could only figure out what had been done to me. I got no help and
Now I know that these were right temporal lobe seizures. The inter-ictal behaviors are part of the cycle of having temporal lobe seizures. First you have the seizures (brain) and as the chemical and physical from that point on the inter-ictal behaviors can be misunderstood to be psychological but ithey are not when the psychosis is part of epilepsy. The interictal behaviors worsen as the seizures do but go away if the person is given the correct medications. If you are suffering from psychosis and epilepsy you are in the middle of partial status epilepticus which is a medical emergency. This is where the problem lies. Not only are antipsychotic drugs going to worsen the seizures but so do GABA drugs. They speed up the brain ossilations. Only bezodiazapams will stop the psychosis but the recovery is slow like a stroke victim. Check my facts and believe me when I say that medicated the inter-ictal behaviors disappear since there is no ictal there are no intericals. The doctors do not know epilepsy and because the use of antidepressents comes before any consideration that the hyper or depression could be physica,l psychotic (in status) epileptics will not be helped. I have never met a doctor who corrrectly diagnosed status and knew how to treat it including emergency rooms. Or radiologist who can tell absense or status from an EEG but the signs are there if they just knew. Why isn't anyone telling them? I have asked this so many ties, it is sad but I am not. I am fine but what about the teenagers?
So how exactly do you get someone to take you seriously and figure out what's going on?
I've got this nasty little loop going. I have migraines - yeah I know and don't dispute that one. But I've been diagnosed as bipolar due to a history that involves sleep issues (primarily seasonal variations in sleep requirements), depression and what psychiatrists insists is "psychosis" so they use antipsychotics for the "psychosis". I've also got a form of myoclonic activity that even the neurologists debate what to diagnose it as being. Here's the interesting part - only antiseizure meds control the myocolonic activity and when that's controlled I don't get the "psychosis"...the "psychosis" has NEVER gone away on an antipsychotic - typically it gets worse.
So I get sent to psychiatrists who get frustrated because I won't stay on the antipsychotics (and why should I? They destabilize my mood, set the myoclonic whatever into high gear and never do anything for psychosis unless you count being sedated into oblivion). But they'll eventually ship me off to a neuro for a consult to figure out why I get "so many movement disorders" as antipsychotic side effects.
Then the neuro does a sleep-deprived EEG - all that ever does is annoy whatever the myoclonic stuff is JUST enough that nothing happens during the test though by the time I'm home I'll have the warning signs of lots of activity and then have lots of the myoclonic stuff for the next day or 2. So the neuros end up debating what it is because it's worsened by the meds that annoy seizures, it's calmed by stuff that would help seizures but not movement disorders, it's not helped by the stuff that would help movement disorders (neither true movement disorders of the ones as side effects of antipsychotics), it reacts to known seizure triggers and it even has a very strong catamenial pattern.
So I'm stuck being sent back and forth between specialists like some sort of science experiment while they randomly test for really odd things (like the one doc who got mad because I told him he didn't get to do a 4th test for Wilson's Disease no matter how convinced he was that the lab was giving incorrect results when they said I didn't have it). Meanwhile, month after month, my "twitches" and "jumps" almost calm down, then I hit mid-cycle and they get so bad the "psychosis" shows up then it almost calms down again just in time for another flare up with my cycle's start where once again it'll get bad enough for a bit of the "psychosis". Yet the best advice anyone's been willing to give me is that neuros will say that with a catamenial pattern "maybe it'll calm down at the end of menopause" (no, I'm not willing to wait without treatment just to see what's going to happen then - that's another 15 years based on family averages) and psychiatrists will tell me "there's no possibility of such a pattern".
Ugh.
WOW - what a difficult time you have been through. My suggestion would be to see an epileptologist (a neuro who specializes in epilepsy), to see if they can figure this out. I would guess that they might want to do a longer EEG on you, maybe a video EEG. I sure wouldn't waste any more time with neuros - they don't seem to be doing you any favors.
((( Good Luck ))),
Barbie
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"We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can fly only by embracing each other." -lucian de crescenzo
I do not see myself as broken, a little bent and off in a diffent direction, but I am enlightened by my experience. I also rehab injured wildlife and so the metaphor does not work. In reality the birds are put down or caged. I know what I have and it no longer holds me back.
I went to Dr. Markand an epileptologist at IU and he knew nothing about status epilepticus and so I was not given the Clonazapam to stop it. I continued to take the Lamictal and added Ativan because it was once the drug of choice for absense seizures until Nixon. It works and the CoQ10 and fish oil. I recovered although there are a number of consequences to partial unmedicated seizures foe twenty years it was the drug and the double dose of the wrong medication that led me to status and the ignorance of even the most educated in epilepsy to miss it. I believe t is an ingredient that since 1964 has been proven to cause absense seizures to worsen even after it is removed and until a bezodiazapam is administered. How this works is very complicated. I am a person who sees myself as a person that is destined to prove that the drug companies that knoe and have known exactly what GABA will do to anyone with absense seizures. They have known for over forty years. It is the teenager that is now in psychosis and his family that suffers or the suicide because the person thinks they are going crazy and the best doctors are not making the correct dignosis because of a conspiracy of silence because the truth would be very costly. I hate to extend myself now that I have recovered but I feel that I must do something or I become part of the silence. I am grateful for much of it. The behavioral aspect, the obsession to understand how what happened to me happened and I figured it out. I do not think of it as luck because I am one of the lucky ones. Many teenagers are not.
Thanks. Wonder why no one has ever suggested that before (probably because a lot of docs like to blame everything short of obvious infections on psych conditions once they know one's been diagnosed)? I'll definitely look into what you mentioned.
A very unfortunate trend lately is to diagnose someone with bipolar and never give them an EEG. As a result, they create both bipolar and psycosis. The cocktail is a combo of Risperdal or Abilify with Depakote.
The hypocratic oath states "Do no harm." Unfortuneately, that is precisely what they are doing.
Risperdal is supposedly given for the psychosis of E for a period of a week. I am here to warn others that even a dose as low as 1/4 mg (.25mg) can do harm and increase seizures especially bringing them on in clusters.
My belief and experience is that if instead the AED is increased, the clusters and psychosis will end within a day or few short days at the very most.
Incarceration in a mental health unit should not be tolerated by anyone with E and they should speak up against the practice and get more EEGs done to rule out seizures in mental health units so that people with undiagnosed E do not lose their independence, the children, and their homes, and face discrimination in health care because of a misdiagnosis of mental illness.Les
This harm is intentional. Read the case againt Neurontin and what they did. I was one of the patients given the 4800 mg. There was no mistake by the first physician and not all are honorable. It was the ignorance and prejudice. I looked like shit because I was manic and in full blown status. Three doctors all saw the spike wave, and absence and R temporal seizurea but knew nothing about psychosis and status. Every single doctor wanted to treat them seperately but I knew that I had been normal (my normal) for forty years and in my heart I knew something was making me ast and behave in humiliating ways. If I was a Teen ...... this troubles me. I figured it out because I have two children. I am well but I was victimized and now what? My children know that I have also helped two other people with closed head injuries to recover from this drug induced psychosis and Depakote put one of them in the stress center. The only way to counter the alteration in brain ossillations caused by GABA is to remove the Gaba completely and rest the brain with Clonazapam switch to Lamictal and Ativan at bedtime. This was my cure and the cure of the two souls sent to me after a GABA episode led to psychosis and they too are recovering.
"it,s not the crazy people you worry about---its the one,s that don,t know it. R.C
hi
anyone still reading this?
This is one of my main concerns right now.
I am taking tegretol and am supposed to be taking two other
meds for sleep and depression.
I read a lot about these meds and even with the pharmacist telling O.K. I am very apprehensive.
They are seoquel, and zyban ? I know I asked this here before but I also have a bad memory.
I met a man a few weeks ago that every time he some of these meds acts like he drank tequila (his words) and gets violent , I am still worried. Rick
Have you head of Ativan? It is the drug that worked best for me. It is a benzodiazepan as it approved for absense seizures which can occur during sleep. It is an old drug and it should be the drug of choice in my opinion but these knew drugs are often "offlabel' and not approved for your condition. Kind of "let's see how this works." I take 3mg. at bedtime. It also works for panic and rage episodes. Try CoQ10, fish oil and a complete viamin and your memory should improve. Good Luck
I would not only double-check, but triple check with one or more doctors about anti-anxiety meds for E. I have a few friends who have been prescribed Xanax (who have NO history of seizures whatsoever) and ALL of them have had seizures when not taking the pills. All I know is that Benzodiazepines cause "a lowered seizure threshold", and that is a pretty serious side effect, especially for someone with E.
sparrow123 HI Rick, I'm new here so that's the delay. I am really concerned about you taking Zyban (Wellbutrin) I was on it for depression and had to go off it because it CAUSES seizures. I had a Grand mal and well the Dr said no more Wellbutrin for you again. Don't know much about the seroquel other than it made me to over medicated on it. I have been on about 40 anti depressants and am either allergic or have awful side effects. So right now I'm on Keppra for seizures, Kolopin, Zoloft. I feel really really crappy and wonder if all this is really even worth it. Of course the grand mal was scary and now I don't go anywhere because I'm afraid of them. Anyway Ask your Doc about that Zyban (it's the same as WEllbutrin but they call it Zyban when they give it to people who are quitting smoking. Good luck to you, hope you have a good holiday.
You have too much trust in doctors and pills. What type of seizures do you hae? Welbutrin is a GABA drug as is Neurontin, Zoloft , Gabatril and many more. If you take them you change the waves and you. When you get off it is too late (see kindling). Read GABAs effect on absence seizures, tumors and when you grasp how much these drugs change you then read about status epilepticus if you begin to act psycho. The most difficult challenge is to get a doctor to treat status correctly. Do not ever let them tell you how or what you dod or do not feel.
Chemistry is a known science. These companies know the effects of GABA and the serious condition of untreated status but they do not tell the doctors the down side and reward them financially for number of scripts written. GABA triggers status which looks like psycho behavior. Chemically induced psychosis is another topic.
The only drugs that treat this type of status but they are on the Nixon hit list because of mothers little helpers are bezodiazpam but good luck getting them. If you look crazy and think you are in status go to ER and keep going until someone listens. Four of us can attest to getting no help. Is ithere any wonder to kids commiting suicide. Read Fitzgeralds "The Crack Up" he was an epileptic who perfectly describes status. I was "crazy/sane" for three years. I know they know so read about seize threashold.
Rick are you asking somethig? Drugs are good if they work but bad if they are the wrong one. If you did not feel this bad then you don't need a doctor to tell you it isn't the drugd for you. Take control it is your head and you are in it what do you feel in your head and after the sensation is over?
Hi Rick :)
Let's see..
Seroquel
Side effects
The most common side effect is sedation. Seroquel will put the patient into a drowsy state, and will help the patient fall asleep. Even though official guidelines call for the quetiapine dosage to be divided throughout the day, many prescriptions call for the entire dose to be taken before bedtime because of its sedative effects. Although quetiapine is approved by the FDA for the treatment of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, it is frequently prescribed for "off-label" purposes including insomnia or the treatment of anxiety disorders. Presumably because of its sedative properties, reports of quetiapine abuse (sometimes by snorting crushed tablets intranasally) have emerged in the medical literature.
Other common side effects include: agitation, memory problems, and upset stomach.
http://meds4dumbbells.com/Seroquel.html
Gads.. you can already get a lot of those 'nice' side effects just via seizure medicine.
I assume this is the sleep med due to the sedative effects.
Zyban..
"1. IMPORTANT WARNINGS ABOUT THE RISK OF SEIZURES FOR PATIENTS TAKING ZYBAN.
ZYBAN Tablets should NOT be used if you are taking the antidepressant WELLBUTRIN® SR or any other medications containing
bupropion hydrochloride, because this will increase the likelihood of you experiencing a seizure.
There is a chance that approximately 1 out of every 1000 people taking bupropion, the active ingredient in ZYBAN, will have a seizure. The chance increases if you:
#1 Have a seizure disorder (for example, epilepsy) or a history of seizures."
http://www.zybannet.com/zyban_faq.html#one
Er, I don't think you want to take Zyban!!!!!!!
And whoever prescribed it either did NOT know about your epilepsy or sure didn't know about the drug they were prescribing!
Zyban is a drug to stop smoking. So, (with respect) I'd suggest if you want to nix the depression that you see a psychiatrist...and nix the reason for the depression as opposed to seeeking to cover it up via more meds.
I do.. and it's one of the smartest things I've done re: coping.
hope that helps,
~sol
Uh yea, the doctor should have known better than to give him Zyban, its just wellbutrin with a new fancy name for not smoking, known to cause seizures all on its own. Doctors just don't think. My doctor didn't want to put me on wellbutrin because he thought it would increase my tics, and I don't have seizures ( according to the doctor). It did mess me up at night, but I didn't have seizures or more tics except the first night)justdewit38 yahoo messenger. 23 year old autistic son with seizure disorder.