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To seize is not to seize- what is the difference?

Thu, 03/31/2011 - 04:59

"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
J Krishnamurti

 

I find this quote interesting and the more I think about it, the more I am unsure how to define health.

 

If this society has become profoundly sick in a certain sense, if the above statement does have any validity whatsoever, then what does it say about me...I feel I have been grasping to find answers since my first "seizure", grasping to find a new purpose, all the while eating pills in an attempt to get back to "well adjusted"...

No wonder I feel confused about how to feel "genuinely me" all the time.

much love

marty

 

I am extremely interested in how others may feel about any of this.  

What does "well adjusted" mean to you? What about purpose? Are you more purposeful now or less?

Has your definition of health changed?

pgd has posted a few times now about somehow finding common language and definitions on words like awareness, consciousness, perception... this would make a very interesting separate thread.

 

Comments

Re: To seize is not to seize- what is the difference?

Submitted by 3Hours2Live on Sat, 2011-04-09 - 06:52
Hi Marty, If you believe words are failing, try a fairly simple sound, like a unique bell ("unique" so the mistake made with the fictional "Ludovico Technique" might not happen). I used a rather unique bell from a rather strange old Reminington Rand typewriter and a modified electric cattle prod for simple aversive conditioning. It didn't take very many repetitions for the bell to have a great visceral effect, and the bell's effect has still not extinguished after 35 years. The visceral effect is not a nice sensation, much like a very weak unpleasant visceral limbic seizure, but within the realm of the same criteria (a strong clue that conditioned responses have much in common with seizure genesis and kindling). What is the "meaning" of the sound of the bell??? By Occam's Razor, why ask the question? Such misdirected and heavily loaded philosophically/epistemologically presumptive questions presuppose "meanings" with a cost of misunderstandings in a tremendous amount of needless confusion arising when Limbic Seizures give the intense visceral sensation commonly described, or labeled, as "fear". For example, Psychodynamics used in the search for the "meaning" of this "fear" has resulted in bizarre theories that include the "trauma" of umbilical separation anxiety and indecision on which breast is better to suckle from, and such search for "meaning" puts more needless baggage onto epilepsy than blaming the craters on the Moon for epilepsy. Next we will be told the theory that the meaning of the face on the planet Mars is epilepsy's failing escape. Or is an aura giving the meaning of seeing saintly halos? I like the concept of "infinity", mainly because it "violates" so many physical laws, which is a strong clue that it is as difficult to pin down as shadows, which don't exist. Will the next question be about what the meaning is of that that doesn't exist? Tadzio

Re: To seize is not to seize- what is the difference?

Submitted by thebettles on Sat, 2011-04-09 - 18:56

Hey Tadzio,

Your responses make me smile. They want to be so meaningful it seems and yet I am thinking 8 out 10 people who read what you say do not know what you are meaning to say.

What does it mean to be meaningful? 

Are you wanting to be meaningful or meaningless?

 

Can you tell me the difference between the two ideas as if you were explaining the difference to a 7 year old?

Then explain the difference in a way that is pure 3hours...

I would like to see the difference.

much love,

marty

 

 

Hey Tadzio,

Your responses make me smile. They want to be so meaningful it seems and yet I am thinking 8 out 10 people who read what you say do not know what you are meaning to say.

What does it mean to be meaningful? 

Are you wanting to be meaningful or meaningless?

 

Can you tell me the difference between the two ideas as if you were explaining the difference to a 7 year old?

Then explain the difference in a way that is pure 3hours...

I would like to see the difference.

much love,

marty

 

 

Re: To seize is not to seize- what is the difference?

Submitted by 3Hours2Live on Mon, 2011-04-11 - 04:47
Hi Marty, "As a radical behaviorist I would say that if the term 'meaning' has any meaning at all, it is the setting which gives rise to the response of the speaker or the subsequent action of the listener with respect to that setting" #1. Keeping closely to the subject of Epilepsy, weighted with my own personnel experiences, and the more useful definitions of "meaning" and "purpose", with the focus on subject matter that most often is applied to children's behaviour, I'll look at the purpose and meaning of being potty trained. Besides just epileptic seizures and potty training being involved, baby bottles, microwave ovens, straight razors, light bulbs, drug testing, and ER procedures and equipment will also be involved. With the greatest frequency, urinating and defecating are innate, and is quickly conditioned with typical positive and negative reinforcements (the action usually feels good and the product is usually quickly isolated and distanced) #2. As the ("speaker's") product is usually a negative reinforcement to both the individual and other individuals (the "listeners"), "modifications in the contingencies of reinforcement regularly induce Homo sapiens, a stubbornly messy arboreal primate, to become toilet trained" #3. "Use the pot!!!" "Make poo poo on the pot, sweety pie." "An utterance, gesture, or display, whether phylogenic or ontogenic, is said to have referent which is its meaning, the referent or meaning being inferred by a listener....Purpose, adaptation,...and communication -- concepts of this sort have, at first sight, an engaging generality. They appear to be useful in describing both ontogenic and phylogenic behavior and in identifying important common properties. Their very generality limits their usefulness, however" #4. Then, potty training traumas may weight military organisations #5. Being potty trained increases the risk of injury involving seizures of epilepsy, as an aura urge to urinate with/or of conditioning from the frequent loss of bladder control during ictus works also as a stimulus to the non-verbal behaviour to make way to the toilet, as the more intense phases of seizures become more likely, with little chance of self verbal behaviour taking heed of situational dangers (sharp, hard objects and standing water, with possible totally incongruous automatisms) #6. With petechial haemorrhage (#7) from secondarily generalized tonic-clonics, with intense constriction resulting in indirect bowel movements (not really defecating, as haemorrhage at most orifices can occur during the intense epileptic seizing "pseudo-" Valsalva manoeuvre), ER personnel can become very confused (more confused than the patient). While epileptic seizures with priapism is not necessarily a Valsalva maneuver-induced priapism, confusion rules supreme with ER over the issues of the source #8. Most common ER assumptions are drug abuse and foreign objects, despite evidence and cited history of epilepsy and evidence of such seizures (drug use/abuse #9 with priapism, but not necessarily seizures). Maybe ERs discount cited history as unreliable given presupposed conclusions (one neighbor, after a moderate ER stroke, kept calling a sugar ant invasion into his home "green onions" repeatedly (maybe he mislabeled the smell of the ants, as the smell was like bitter licorice to me)), but ERs making dangerous moves from presupposed irrational info to ignore (notice that epilepsy is involved is irrational?) is a needless risk and/or ER egotistical sado-masochistic power-trip. Forty years ago, though with greater bias against homosexuals, a patient's health was of top priority ("the result may be intestinal perforation, peritonitis, and death"), and while mental illness was often confounded with epilepsy, dildos weren't #10. Now, call all the issues mental disorders, "five and four this guy...I slip into my butch mode so I can fit in...I could well get my finger sliced" #11, but, what about the patient's health? The belief in strange statements is this much, but not that much. The "meaning" in verbal exchanges between the speaker and the listener (which may be one and the same person, then often called verbal "thinking"), is sometimes used to judge the "constituent functions of consciousness" by which constituents are more impaired or "confused" #12. My speech and writing verbal behaviour can be totally disrupted to a halt during a partial seizure, but I am still often able to type overly academic sentences while I'm well less than in the Capital of the State of Consciousness during a partial seizure. Typing overly academic sentences is more of a complex task than writing and/or talking by many ranking systems, and sometimes to speak, I have write a partial phrase down and read it off aloud to initiate my speech (with previous frequent mispronunciations that I now avoid with synonyms, with unusual classifications being involved, sometimes simple, such as confusing words by intial letters in the words, and carrying over in verbal "thinking" with resultant "verbally directed" physical actions during partial seizure clusters). Now what is the purpose and meaning of: "You can't be confused about the baby and the bottle and not be confused about the microwave," said Marianne Schuelein, a neurologist at Georgetown University Medical Center. "You're confused across the board. You're not just confused in one thing" #13. I'm continually confused in my "gut" sense of location from brain damage, so I use a GPS unit to have a reliable sense of my longitude and latitude map location (tech limits gives numbers less confusion than street name intersections), which I'm seldom confused about. Dr. Schuelein sounds confused across the board about confussion involving constituents distinguishing ranged functional elements of neurological impairments. In the book "A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" by James Joyce, what is the meaning and purpose of the sentence: "When you wet the bed, first it is warm then it gets cold" #14??? Tadzio #01: http://books.google.com/books?id=3nY7AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Catania+Harnad&hl=en&ei=CXOiTa2aNoz6sAOTmoD6DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=Hocutt%20meaning&f=false #02: http://www.bornpottytrained.com/ #03: http://books.google.com/books?id=3nY7AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Catania+Harnad&hl=en&ei=CXOiTa2aNoz6sAOTmoD6DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=toilet&f=false #04: pages 399-400, http://books.google.com/books?id=3nY7AAAAIAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Catania+Harnad&hl=en&ei=CXOiTa2aNoz6sAOTmoD6DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=meaning%20ontogenic%20analyses&f=false #05: http://books.google.com/books?id=zForLtJwS0AC&pg=PA19&dq=B.+F.+Skinner+potty+training&hl=en&ei=qlyiTejSNI_AsAOv8935DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CEgQ6AEwAg#v=snippet&q=%20Skinner%20potty%20training&f=false #06: http://books.google.com/books?id=2Spjve2Pb6gC&pg=PA616&lpg=PA616&dq=epilepsy+incongruous+automatisms&source=bl&ots=gHLSwy8s6q&sig=Spjy8yJ4vpIU1B2NeXWgZ9dCzRQ&hl=en&ei=s5SiTcOCIIfGsAOtt_j4DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false #07: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2170239/pdf/v065p00365.pdf #08: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19207269 #09: http://scienceblogs.com/neurotopia/2009/11/friday_weird_science_the_stutt.php #10: http://books.google.com/books?id=cnoyjhe7cP8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Reubens+everything&hl=en&ei=9aeiTcq7Io6gsQO6-Yj5DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=light%20bulbs&f=false #11: http://books.google.com/books?id=8bJjaw7cTsMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=weekends+at+bellevue&hl=en&src=bmrr&ei=da2iTaSWL4imsQPpnYH6DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=book-thumbnail&resnum=1&ved=0CDgQ6wEwAA#v=onepage&q=finger%20sliced&f=false #12: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/125/12/2691.full.pdf+html #13: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/daily/sept99/microwave.htm #14: http://books.google.com/books?id=v6YWAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=portrait+of+the+artist+as+a+young+man&hl=en&ei=HrmiTca2IIfksQO84PT5DA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=wet%20bed&f=false

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