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Undiagnosed seizures or "fake" seizures?
Thu, 12/04/2008 - 23:15Hello, and thanks for reading this! I feel silly asking for help, and am half expecting no response.
Anywho, I'm having these odd episodes. Basically, I feel very, very tired and my tongue feels heavy (?) then my eyes deviate upwards and I get head drops (my head drops backwards). I become almost drunk~ I can't balance and I have little control over what I'm doing; I wander from room to room, on unsteady feet of course, repeat things, sway back and forth... all sorts of odd things. There's no twitching or jerking involved, other than the head drops and occasional odd movements that aren't nearly as quick as the tonic clonic movements I've seen in videos, and I remain fully conscious. I can even talk, but it's an effort and my words are often slurred. I sleep for an hour or more afterwards, and sometimes am "drunk" when I wake up.
I'm a 23 year old female with depression that is being succesfully treated with cymbalta. I had these "incidents" before the cymbalta, however, and was even tested with a waking eeg when I was a child as I was thought to have absence seizures. The eeg proved to be inconclusive. I don't have a copy of the results now. :-(
Honestly, I'm a bit worried that I'm "doing" these on purpose because I'm conscious during them, and have discovered psychogenic seizures. It scares me a bit that I fit the profile in gender and age, but I'm clinging to the knowledge that I was suspected to have seizures when I was younger. That last bit actually makes me think maybe they ARE psychogenic, since why would I WANT to have real seizures? I hope you see where I'm going here.
It'd also help if you shared information about your episodes if they are similar. Basically, I'm a sponge right now. Please give me things to soak up and consider! :-)
Comments
Re: Undiagnosed seizures or "fake" seizures?
Submitted by TheHam on Fri, 2008-12-05 - 20:18
Thank you very much for your input. The most useful bits, to me, were these:
I'd read about psychogenic sz and I'd say "But I do bicycle kick, I do scream, I do seize for a long time, I do respond at times..." but then I'd read about frontal lobe sz and it would talk about bicycle movements, screaming...things that were signs of fake siezures.You're so right. There was definitely overlap, just in the little bit that I looked into it. The first link that came up was this: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050901/849.html, and table two in particular struck me. I mean, some of the "signs" that a seizure is "fake" are just absurd.
*associated (often multiple) psychiatric disorders* Really? Comorbitity means one is not real? I think they're MEANING to say *if the person appears to be a hypochondriac* or *if the person is a known borderline personality with manipulative tendencies* but that's not at ALL what is said.
*Avoidance behavior during seizures* mmk... So, if I know I have a seizure coming on, and I take myself a little more private instead of making a fool out of myself, I'm faking it?
*ictal crying, weeping* If this means crying after, then yes, I do! Not all the time, but sometimes I'm so frustrated and embarassed, I just cry. :-(
*Flurries of seizures or recurrent pseudo-status epilepticus that lead to multiple emergency department visits or hospitalizations* So so... if I have a bunch of seizures, and they scare me enough that I go to the hospital, I'm faking?
And on and on. This "list" seems so arbitrary and prejudiced!
All seizures are different.
YES! I mean, this is only logical, is it not? Not only is everyone's brain wired differently, but also the electrical activity is different too! So, say if there happened to be the same TYPE of activity in the same PART of the brain for two people. Seizure would still manifest differently, because, well, brains are all sorted differently!
Being conscious isn't neat and tidy. It messes with your perception of the world.
YES YES YES! I *think* I'm fully aware, but my perception of reality is skewed during the seizure. So, even though I think I see everything, my brain itself isn't able to see that I'm not seeing. If that makes any sense. And I'm not talking in the visual sense :-p.
So... in short (after the long), thank you. Your response helped me come to terms with the possibility of having "real" seizures and also to prepare for the possible battle I have ahead of me.
~hams
Thank you very much for your input. The most useful bits, to me, were these:
I'd read about psychogenic sz and I'd say "But I do bicycle kick, I do scream, I do seize for a long time, I do respond at times..." but then I'd read about frontal lobe sz and it would talk about bicycle movements, screaming...things that were signs of fake siezures.You're so right. There was definitely overlap, just in the little bit that I looked into it. The first link that came up was this: http://www.aafp.org/afp/20050901/849.html, and table two in particular struck me. I mean, some of the "signs" that a seizure is "fake" are just absurd.
*associated (often multiple) psychiatric disorders* Really? Comorbitity means one is not real? I think they're MEANING to say *if the person appears to be a hypochondriac* or *if the person is a known borderline personality with manipulative tendencies* but that's not at ALL what is said.
*Avoidance behavior during seizures* mmk... So, if I know I have a seizure coming on, and I take myself a little more private instead of making a fool out of myself, I'm faking it?
*ictal crying, weeping* If this means crying after, then yes, I do! Not all the time, but sometimes I'm so frustrated and embarassed, I just cry. :-(
*Flurries of seizures or recurrent pseudo-status epilepticus that lead to multiple emergency department visits or hospitalizations* So so... if I have a bunch of seizures, and they scare me enough that I go to the hospital, I'm faking?
And on and on. This "list" seems so arbitrary and prejudiced!
All seizures are different.
YES! I mean, this is only logical, is it not? Not only is everyone's brain wired differently, but also the electrical activity is different too! So, say if there happened to be the same TYPE of activity in the same PART of the brain for two people. Seizure would still manifest differently, because, well, brains are all sorted differently!
Being conscious isn't neat and tidy. It messes with your perception of the world.
YES YES YES! I *think* I'm fully aware, but my perception of reality is skewed during the seizure. So, even though I think I see everything, my brain itself isn't able to see that I'm not seeing. If that makes any sense. And I'm not talking in the visual sense :-p.
So... in short (after the long), thank you. Your response helped me come to terms with the possibility of having "real" seizures and also to prepare for the possible battle I have ahead of me.
~hams
Re: Undiagnosed seizures or "fake" seizures?
Submitted by pewter on Fri, 2008-12-05 - 21:19
because I have a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder (along with PTSD) my Neurologist has often insinuated that my seizures are "psychogenic" because the only 2 EEGs I've had have come back normal - though she acknowledged that a lot of people with epileptic seizures have repetitive EEGs that are normal (this after I point blank questioned her). My MRI did show a imbalance in the Temporal Medial Lobe.
I started having them within a year of a horriable car wreck where I suffered a head injury.
I can remember bits and pieces of my Partial-Complex Seizures, I'm always either in a brain fog for several hours later or fall into a deep sleep, I come out of them confused and disoriented and yes sometimes panicky and I have cried after 1 or 2 of them due to the panic of being confused and disoriented and once - I didn't even know what my name was (which created lots of panic).
I'm not faking them because, as you said, why on earth would I want them? They are frightening, I don't know when they will happen, and I'm not legally able to drive. None of my symptoms meet the supposed guidelines of "psychogenic seizures" and yet because I have those psychiatric disorders already on my history - the Neurologist won't look past them.
because I have a diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder and Generalized Anxiety Disorder (along with PTSD) my Neurologist has often insinuated that my seizures are "psychogenic" because the only 2 EEGs I've had have come back normal - though she acknowledged that a lot of people with epileptic seizures have repetitive EEGs that are normal (this after I point blank questioned her). My MRI did show a imbalance in the Temporal Medial Lobe.
I started having them within a year of a horriable car wreck where I suffered a head injury.
I can remember bits and pieces of my Partial-Complex Seizures, I'm always either in a brain fog for several hours later or fall into a deep sleep, I come out of them confused and disoriented and yes sometimes panicky and I have cried after 1 or 2 of them due to the panic of being confused and disoriented and once - I didn't even know what my name was (which created lots of panic).
I'm not faking them because, as you said, why on earth would I want them? They are frightening, I don't know when they will happen, and I'm not legally able to drive. None of my symptoms meet the supposed guidelines of "psychogenic seizures" and yet because I have those psychiatric disorders already on my history - the Neurologist won't look past them.
Re: Undiagnosed seizures or "fake" seizures?
Submitted by uberzwitter on Fri, 2008-12-05 - 16:41
i have complex partials that can go into secondary generalized sz's. I know how you feel about "Am I making this up, why would I want to?" because your concious. I would have minutes to hours of zoning out and saying or doing odd things repetitively. I would feel as if I was stoned- staring at things and seeing the world very distorted. I felt disoriented and weird. Sometimes I wouldnt recognize people and my surroundings and try to run away. I also can have pretty violent convulsions. I have had my family say it's psychogenic too just because they don't want me to be epileptic- but my doctor assured me it was epileptic in nature and my first EEG five years ago came out abnormal even though my video EEG came up with nothing and all subsequent EEG's came up with nothing. If you read what is not "normal" for an epileptic seizure it can scare you. I'd read about psychogenic sz and I'd say "But I do bicycle kick, I do scream, I do seize for a long time, I do respond at times..." but then I'd read about frontal lobe sz and it would talk about bicycle movements, screaming...things that were signs of fake siezures. All seizures are different. Being conscious isn't neat and tidy. It messes with your perception of the world. Read up on psychogenic, but from what you say I don't think that it is.