Community Forum Archive

The Epilepsy Community Forums are closed, and the information is archived. The content in this section may not be current or apply to all situations. In addition, forum questions and responses include information and content that has been generated by epilepsy community members. This content is not moderated. The information on these pages should not be substituted for medical advice from a healthcare provider. Experiences with epilepsy can vary greatly on an individual basis. Please contact your doctor or medical team if you have any questions about your situation. For more information, learn about epilepsy or visit our resources section.

Causes of Underemployment.

Wed, 08/20/2008 - 13:38

For those of you who are able to work, but cannot find employment, I was wondering what you think the cause of this might be. For example, is it lack of transportation, experience, education, etc.? By "employment" I mean something commensurate with your abilities and experience. Something that you think is reasonable and beneficial for you.

Comments

Re: Causes of Underemployment.

Submitted by woodland on Wed, 2008-08-20 - 21:33

  I believe that employers view us as a liability as opposed to an asset.  For those of us who experience the side effects of these AED's including memory, speech/communication, etc., we may be viewed as being unable to perform our duties.  Some may consider us "not wanting to participate/communicate" or "not applying yourself".  In many cases, we don't "communicate" because we tend to come acrossed as being "idiots" due to the fact that we often have speech issues.  The lack of effort reflects the fact that it may take us longer to comprehend something.  In this case I can understand while an employer may not want us in a "time sensitive" position but that doesn't mean we are not employable.  Employers fail to realize that, for most of us, once we learn something, we tend to be very good at it.  Because of the fact that I do have memory issues, I believe that this is why I am such a good organizer.   In some situations we are considered to be disabled.  In my opinion the employers should take full advantage of everything the government offers for employing the disabled instead of thinking of us as liabilities or poor performers.  The fact of the matter is that most of us can excel at any job that matches our abilities.  It's a pride issue of proving your worth. "If you (employer) are patient enough to allow me to learn, you will find out that, not only can I perform this job, I can do it very well." 

 Some of this may be healthcare expenses as well.  With the cost of healthcare, it's only a matter of time that all individuals that have some sort of chronic disorder are going to find it difficult to obtain and retain work.  It is getting to the point that some employers refuse to hire anyone that is a smoker.  Now granted, this is a self induced medical liability.  However, how long is it going to be before this "screening" gets down to us?  (Before you say "they can't do that" all I have for you is two words, "prove it").  I have seen people who have lost their jobs after making a major claim.  I know of an individual that lost his job after the employer became aware of the fact that his wife had been diagnosised with cancer.  I know an individual that was curiously fired within two days of notifiying the employer that he required surgery.  I know of an individual that was terminated while in a hospital bed.  I believe that medical expenses is now another unofficial reason for our employment issues. 

I am now going to return to school for a degree.  In many of our cases, our grades/GPA will not reflect our abilities due to the side effects of these AED's.  This is why I did not pursue college.   Being that legitimate accredited colleges now make it possible to earn a degree sitting behind your own desk, this will make it easier for me.  I also have issues with memory, concentration, etc.  Because of the fact that all of the class studies will be in writing, I don't have to worry about not comprehending something before the instructor moves on.  Even if there is a "web cast" involved, I can still record it and review it as many times as I need to.  This will nullify the education excuse.  I believe that everyone should take advantage of the online college opportunities.   

This may be a situation where some of us may want to consider some type of employment within the medical field.  X-ray tech, physical rehab., EKG/EEG tech's, etc.  Hopefully, employers within the medical profession will not be as judgemental. 

 

Steven  

 

  I believe that employers view us as a liability as opposed to an asset.  For those of us who experience the side effects of these AED's including memory, speech/communication, etc., we may be viewed as being unable to perform our duties.  Some may consider us "not wanting to participate/communicate" or "not applying yourself".  In many cases, we don't "communicate" because we tend to come acrossed as being "idiots" due to the fact that we often have speech issues.  The lack of effort reflects the fact that it may take us longer to comprehend something.  In this case I can understand while an employer may not want us in a "time sensitive" position but that doesn't mean we are not employable.  Employers fail to realize that, for most of us, once we learn something, we tend to be very good at it.  Because of the fact that I do have memory issues, I believe that this is why I am such a good organizer.   In some situations we are considered to be disabled.  In my opinion the employers should take full advantage of everything the government offers for employing the disabled instead of thinking of us as liabilities or poor performers.  The fact of the matter is that most of us can excel at any job that matches our abilities.  It's a pride issue of proving your worth. "If you (employer) are patient enough to allow me to learn, you will find out that, not only can I perform this job, I can do it very well." 

 Some of this may be healthcare expenses as well.  With the cost of healthcare, it's only a matter of time that all individuals that have some sort of chronic disorder are going to find it difficult to obtain and retain work.  It is getting to the point that some employers refuse to hire anyone that is a smoker.  Now granted, this is a self induced medical liability.  However, how long is it going to be before this "screening" gets down to us?  (Before you say "they can't do that" all I have for you is two words, "prove it").  I have seen people who have lost their jobs after making a major claim.  I know of an individual that lost his job after the employer became aware of the fact that his wife had been diagnosised with cancer.  I know an individual that was curiously fired within two days of notifiying the employer that he required surgery.  I know of an individual that was terminated while in a hospital bed.  I believe that medical expenses is now another unofficial reason for our employment issues. 

I am now going to return to school for a degree.  In many of our cases, our grades/GPA will not reflect our abilities due to the side effects of these AED's.  This is why I did not pursue college.   Being that legitimate accredited colleges now make it possible to earn a degree sitting behind your own desk, this will make it easier for me.  I also have issues with memory, concentration, etc.  Because of the fact that all of the class studies will be in writing, I don't have to worry about not comprehending something before the instructor moves on.  Even if there is a "web cast" involved, I can still record it and review it as many times as I need to.  This will nullify the education excuse.  I believe that everyone should take advantage of the online college opportunities.   

This may be a situation where some of us may want to consider some type of employment within the medical field.  X-ray tech, physical rehab., EKG/EEG tech's, etc.  Hopefully, employers within the medical profession will not be as judgemental. 

 

Steven  

 

Re: Causes of Underemployment.

Submitted by irvkay on Thu, 2008-08-21 - 20:19

Hi,

This topic caught my eye because I've lived with epilepsy all my life and have been fortunate to maintain employment with Honeywell Inc. here in the Twin Cities in their Punch Press department for over 31 years before I retired.  Also, I was able to learn a lot in dealing with all kinds of disabilities as a Charter Member of Honeywell's Council of Employee's with Disabilities, serving 2 terms as its president.  Then in 1993, I was appointed by the Corporate Director of Diversity of Honeywell and others to represent Honeywell "as its companies Corporate Representative to the Employer Committee of the President's Committee on Employment of People with Disabilities, in Washington; as we sought to teach and help national employers how to interpret and deal with diabilities under The Americans with Disabilities Act."

Your right in one respect, employers and people are often reluctant to accept the disabled or epileptic as they are and for what they are. I view this as an inborn psychological factor that people have about the disabled being different.

On the other hand, few employers and people even recognize what we pointed out "that the disabled employee often has more integrity relative to their job responsibilities, as well as a better attendance record." The reason for this is really quite simple and goes to the root of most people with disabilities concerns "they value their job opportunity, seek to do their best, and be promotable, when possible."

These things might sound like a lot to accomplish, but it can be done through faith, hope, and perseverance. You begin by learning your own situation as best you can. Establish a relationship within your local Epilepsy Foundation within your state. As they often have groups of people with epilepsy, seeking employment, or learning how to live with it. Understand others, so as to recognize yourself more fully, as well as attain any guidance your foundation may offer.

When I was first employed in the Punch Press Department, no less; as well as operated multi-slides and 150 ton blanking presses; "I began by establishing a dialogue about my condition with my supervisor, medical personnel, union officers, and my peers, so as to avoid the fear that others could have about having a person with epilepsy work with them or under them."  I believe that step in itself enabled others "to accept me as I was and reject the thought of woorying about me, I was open and willing to help others understand and learn about epilepsy."

Those are some of the most important factors that I view, as I look back to my past employment and seek to lead my life today as a retiree and senior citizen. 

Hi,

This topic caught my eye because I've lived with epilepsy all my life and have been fortunate to maintain employment with Honeywell Inc. here in the Twin Cities in their Punch Press department for over 31 years before I retired.  Also, I was able to learn a lot in dealing with all kinds of disabilities as a Charter Member of Honeywell's Council of Employee's with Disabilities, serving 2 terms as its president.  Then in 1993, I was appointed by the Corporate Director of Diversity of Honeywell and others to represent Honeywell "as its companies Corporate Representative to the Employer Committee of the President's Committee on Employment of People with Disabilities, in Washington; as we sought to teach and help national employers how to interpret and deal with diabilities under The Americans with Disabilities Act."

Your right in one respect, employers and people are often reluctant to accept the disabled or epileptic as they are and for what they are. I view this as an inborn psychological factor that people have about the disabled being different.

On the other hand, few employers and people even recognize what we pointed out "that the disabled employee often has more integrity relative to their job responsibilities, as well as a better attendance record." The reason for this is really quite simple and goes to the root of most people with disabilities concerns "they value their job opportunity, seek to do their best, and be promotable, when possible."

These things might sound like a lot to accomplish, but it can be done through faith, hope, and perseverance. You begin by learning your own situation as best you can. Establish a relationship within your local Epilepsy Foundation within your state. As they often have groups of people with epilepsy, seeking employment, or learning how to live with it. Understand others, so as to recognize yourself more fully, as well as attain any guidance your foundation may offer.

When I was first employed in the Punch Press Department, no less; as well as operated multi-slides and 150 ton blanking presses; "I began by establishing a dialogue about my condition with my supervisor, medical personnel, union officers, and my peers, so as to avoid the fear that others could have about having a person with epilepsy work with them or under them."  I believe that step in itself enabled others "to accept me as I was and reject the thought of woorying about me, I was open and willing to help others understand and learn about epilepsy."

Those are some of the most important factors that I view, as I look back to my past employment and seek to lead my life today as a retiree and senior citizen. 

Re: Causes of Underemployment.

Submitted by 3Hours2Live on Mon, 2008-11-24 - 05:26
I was told "Due to the severity and complexity of your (my) disabling condition, the department (Rehabilitation Department) is unable to provide services which will likely lead to adequate employment at this time." They noted that I did not concur with this finding, but at this time I had just about memorized Joseph Heller's "Catch-22." This was after I graduated magna cum laude from SJSU with a BS degree in Business and minor in Psychology; I was always a "Dean Scholar," 34th in a class of 1304, GPA of 3.75/4.00 scale in my major, GPA of 4.00/4.00 scale in my minor, and membership in a few honor societies. Economic problems in my family precluded immediate graduate school. I had a near 100 percent favorable response rate to my employment resume, but the results always proved unfavourable after the oral interview. After seeking advice from my former University Professors, I disclosed my handicap on my employent resume and the favorable rate declined by more than 50 percent and still no favourable oral interviews; I then sought protection under the Rehabilitation Act with Federal employers. After a thousand-plus resumes and hundreds of interviews overall, I continued with the Rehabilitation Act's "administrative remedies" with the FDIC, IRS, and OPM to the exclusion of the GAO, DEA, DOT, and many others. They were all for trainee positions paying a little less than $20,000 a year; with the FDIC I was both a direct applicant and a nominated "Outstanding Scholar" candidate. Transportation wasn't an issue; experience wasn't an issue, but the FDIC did try to raise it as an issue in hearings, to no avail since they hired less qualified people who had no experience and less experience than I had; education wasn't an issue as I exceeded all the education requirements; connections seemed to have played a slight role but were not decisive (i.e., relatives of bankers were a bit more frequent than average, and the IRS had a few "friends" ranked disportionately skillful in oral skills; with the IRS, my written test had the highest score for the group in central California; with the FDIC, my written exam was amongst the top third in the San Francisco Bay Area. For the IRS there were about twice the number of willing applicants than positions available; for the FDIC there was a one-to-one match of willing applicants as positions needing to be filled (OPM officials told me the FDIC was legally required to give me the job because of this and in that they missed the time limit to have me removed from the OPM certificate for any claims of my not being qualified for the positions (i.e., they would have to hire me, and then fire me for good cause). The IRS said I wasn't selected because of poor ranked performance in an oral exam that they claimed I passed; OPM claimed the oral exam was a pass/fail exam and not a ranking exam. The oral exam had very strong statistical correlations with the written exam, with one extreme "outlier" (me) more than two standard deviations from the grouped remitted (or whatever my Stat professor called it at the time) regression line; I was far far away from the dense regression line, even much further away than everyone who failed the exam! And many many more minor technicalities galore! The FDIC said I failed the oral interview (claimed not an exam) mainly for what they claimed was poor "eye-contact" and a lack of motivation "revealed" by unemployent (other applicants had less employment then I did; the FDIC immediately destroyed the oral interviews forms on me (forms that stated "Retain For Possible Appeals") because of the "Paperwork Reduction Act") and many many more minor technicalities galore! I'm running out time for editing now, and I don't know which part you may be most interested in, or not at all. With ten year old court cases and discovery laws, I culled a lot of perks about how people with epilepsy affects other people. With employment, I am at the top till I open my mouth. Speech therapy, Dale Carnegie, etc. doesn't help; interviwers will say there is nothing wrong with my speech or what I say, then they will write down that I am just "creepy." Judges will assume I can't be both successful and handicapped; one judge told me being a Bank Examiner was too mundane and beneath me for my intellect and I should be a scholar (was he joking, insulting, or serious?(he couldn't seem to keep his eyes off the cover of my Rabelais book); another judge told me I failed everything and I should take responsibility for it and quit whinning (was he well founded or just assumed epileptics were necessarily failures?). So anyway, I think "Social Skills" are probably the primary factor, but after studying psychological testing (one of my best subjects) and experiencing complex epilepsy with the behavourist philosophy of B.F. Skinner, Who decides what a "Social Skill" is? Who decides how to measure it? Who decides how to use the measurement? Is it valid and objective? Or is the notion of "Social Skills" so vague that the notion can be used to label "creepy" epileptics like me (or anybody else that is different) as undesirable with a simple two-out-of-three majority vote while denying that it is just a biased "gut" feeling against "those, you know" people? And, statistical analaysis is prohibited in handicap discrimination cases under the Rehabilitation Act. I should have majored in Medievel philosophy so Maimonides could guide me in my perplexed state.

Sign Up for Emails

Stay up to date with the latest epilepsy news, stories from the community, and more.